Comments on: Where Do We Differ? Why Do We Cringe?

By: Ed Jacoutot

Ed Jacoutot — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:57:35 +0000

Having spent considerable time (for me) studying Anne’s Blog, “Heart, Mind, Soul, and Strength” accessed by her link seven comments ago dated Feb. 24 I am anxious to offer my response and will do so there. Her well-thought-out effort – notable for its clear and comprehensive rebute to the claims of Roman Catholicism deserve a careful reply which I believe she will welcome. I’m beset by the fear, however, that my qualifications are so limited that I may fail to fairly represent “the other side”. I recognize this is not a “debate” per say, and I am not a recognized RC apologist – so I hope my humble “opinion” tempered by a life-long love of Roman Catholicism will fare me well – and I will strive for breverity and when all is done – we shall part comfortable knowing our goal all along is akin to Emily Dickinson’s when she said, “I never … visited in Heaven; Yet certain am I of the spot as if (a) chart were given.”

By: Ed Jacoutot

Ed Jacoutot — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:55:34 +0000

Thank you Anne for your patience. Oh and thank you too for reminding me that I should not take myself too seriously. You are right: These can be sensitive issues when they are so dear to our hearts. Perhaps blogging is not the best venue to do this – I would prefer sitting on a sunny verandah over a cup of tea (I’m sitting here in Arizona where that is possible) but short of that pecking away faceless on this keyboard is the best we can do ….. and I promise, – promise NOT to be in anyway upset by statements I hear here. Made by anyone. When I was growing up my family was the only Catholics in the neighborhood (like many neighborhoods) and you know how kids are – we engaged in silly little barbs hurled at each other across the street. The only thing some could think of against me was …..”Cat Licker!” (Ever heard THAT one?). No – me neither – before or since – but even then – as a thin- skinned kid – it didn’t bother me. But now it’s “ROMAN” Catholic! Now – THAT bothers me! No – ahhhhh, just kidding. Now that that’s all cleared up – oh I hope so – I’m going to go over and study again your “Comments”. A first glance is all I’ve managed so far. Oh – modern life! It is so overscheduled! Time – Time, please Lord, give us more! I just bought a new house so my mind has been EVERYWHERE. Votre Ami – Edmund

By: Anne

Anne — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 04:56:12 +0000

Hi Ed

Just to confirm, Dr. P. interpreted my comment correctly, “call me a fool” as in “fools wade in where angels fear to tread”. As a blogger, I find it helps if I don’t take myself too seriously, and especially when I deal with comments that are dear to everyone’s hearts. It is so incredibly difficult to comment on such a sensitive divide without just stirring hostilities.

Take care & God bless
Anne/WF

By: Ed Jacoutot

Ed Jacoutot — Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:01:13 +0000

Ohhhhhhhh – is my face Red! And thank you D.P. for straightening it out for me. Anne – my profound apology! Not only am I a “new Kid” on the block (bloggilng) but you guys have treated me so well I plunged in and hoped nobody would detect that I have little idea how to navigate here. So I took the hint and visited Anne’s link – and presto! Can’t wait to devour – andd wade in to her comments. But my time’s up and am forced to wait. Will I sleep tonight? Prob-ley not.

By: PS

PS — Sun, 25 Feb 2007 03:59:06 +0000

I think Ed makes a good point about protestants overlooking the role of Mary. It is probably an over reaction against the idea of praying to her.

Regarding the liturgy, as someone posted, it is the “work of the people” As a Lutheran, I’m used to it, of course. A pastor described it as a way to connect with past memories, past moments. It is meaningful if you want it to be so. It does involve the people in worship; it is not worship as entertainment, and it is not passive. Old people have the repeated prayers engrained in the deepest part of their brains. That often sustains them in difficult times.

I, unfortunately, attended two dual funerals in one weekend, due to a car accident. They were both held in the same large public space. The first funeral was Baptist, the second Lutheran. At the Baptist funeral, the pastor did all the talking, plus there was music. At the Lutheran funeral, there was some liturgy, so there was participation. My friend, who grew up Baptist, but has been Lutheran for awhile, said, “now I know that I am really Lutheran. I appreciated taking part in the service.” Of course, you could substitute two other denominations for Baptist and Lutheran.

Regarding the “cringe” factor. From my point of view, I have some “cringe” toward groups that seem to suggest that there was no true church before their founder came along about 50 years ago and founded their group. And I cringe when I hear a pastor, perhaps on a Christian radio station, who talks as though he completely knows the mind of God and even says what God can and can’t do. I haven’t decided yet if the problem is that the guy sounds so “not humble” or that I harden my mind to what truths he might be preaching.

By: D. P.

D. P. — Sun, 25 Feb 2007 01:05:06 +0000

Ed, I believe you’ve misunderstood Anne’s figure of speech. She was suggesting that her reply (linked in her comment) might seem foolish because she is unsure it is adequate.

By: Ed Jacoutot

Ed Jacoutot — Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:27:02 +0000

Sorry Anne – I don’t recall calling you a “fool” – nor would I ever do so. I believe I have mised your reply. Perhaps – there may be little doubt – I am the fool.

By: Anne

Anne — Sat, 24 Feb 2007 20:22:14 +0000

Okay, call me a fool and you’ll be right, but I’ve replied as best I know how.

http://weekendfisher.blogspot.com/2007/02/one-holy-catholic-and-apostolic-church.html

By: Ed Jacoutot

Ed Jacoutot — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:57:25 +0000

Thank you SingingOwl for a comprehensive lesson on the Pentacostal and Chrismatic movement. I found it very informative – and have some friends – a Catholic couple who, though we don’t discuss religion (I probably would annoy them) belong to a large and faily new parish in Indianaoplis – which ironically was started about 15 years ago by a priest who I discovered (through research in “family history”) just last year is a relatilve of mine – (great uncle). He recently became deseaced before I could meet him – but I understand this partilcular parish is heavily Chrarismatic. Knowing little about the movement I have “wondered” a lot. Loved your observation of 4 churches on one corner – each with a cross on top of its steeple. Indiana (perhaps the whole midwest) seems full of intersections like that. I wonder – when Christ looks down at that spot on Sunday morning – and say’s to Himself (if we are permitted to speculate on THAT) – “Well, of course I’m everywhere (being God), but which one shall I point my finger to this morning and make someone in that congreation feel My “Presence” especially. (I like to think He has a sense of humor). It is true that we have brought up a great many “subjects” that are probably too big for this Blog but may I say I have always had a little “problem” with one issue in the Baptist view of things. You have such a great and gentle way of addressing controversal subjects ‘tween factions that I’m sure you can help me on this one. It is about Baptism – and the original Anabaptist and how many Protestant denominations insist on immersion – and complete rejection of “Infant Babptism – or “sprinkling”. I find it hard to believe that immersion vs sprinkling, as long as it involvs water, makes enough diffeance to cause a whole movement to evolve around the method of accomplishing this “act”. When I (we) consider that two thirds of Christiandom (all Orthodox – and many Protestants) accept sprinkling – and it’s companion practice “Infant Baptism – is it that important and if it is just how upset is Christ with the way the vast majority preforms this Sacrament? A clarification will be welcome. The other issue I think a lot about – mostly becasue I’ve always had a special “devotion” to Mary since I was about 15 is the Protestant problem with our interest in Her and their almost total neglect – avoidance of almost anything to do with Her. It seems you pay far more attention to Mary Magdelan (and many women in the OT) who was only a “friend” os Jesus – albiet important – rather than His Mother who who was not only “there” at the begining and at the end but during His entire life – especially the first 30 years of it. I sometimes feel that it is too bad that you folks are missing so much. I realize a valid reply to this could be, “…well, we have Jesus – why would we want anything – or anybody else?” That in itself is true – but does not Her “role” in the way God “arranged” Salvation thru His Son’s sojourn on earth justify a little more “respect” for Her? Well, if not respect – at least justify interest. Oh – it’s true that over the centuries and down to the present many people (all Catholics mostly) learned in their daily lives to pay Her perhaps more attention than should be due – but isn’t it also true that when we concentrate our gaze on Heaven and things that are Heavenly He will be pleased? Yes – He is a jealous God – but since They shared flesh – and no other human being had that Gift bestowed upon them does not that make Her speical? Really Special? Seems to me – but I’m not everybody. Hey! You guys – (and girls), I can’t believe you are willing to devote so much of your valuable time listening to me – speculate. I didn’t suspect so many non-catholics could be so good to have around. Please come back.

By: SingingOwl

SingingOwl — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:25:21 +0000

Aaaarrrrgggghhhh! I just wrote a long post about this–and cyberspace ate it.

I will try to write it again soon. It won’t be the same though. I HATE it when that happens!